|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
   |
Posted - 2009.02.17 15:27:00 -
[1]
 Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness
If there is no "easy way out" of WH space out of game events might cause problems - I can live with danger and the need to travel further and further into WH-Space (I am actually quite thrilled by that idea) but making WHs hard to scan down might cause a lot of people suffer boring times in case shyte happens - and it will according to Mr. Murphy.
Self destruct is your friend.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 20:03:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/02/2009 20:06:08
I see one issue with new scanning system. You are making covops ships obsolete.
On TQ you use covops mostly because they can scan down things fast. Under new system (after you drop probes which takes same time for covops and any other ship) scanning enemy ships (around gate etc - so most fleet engagements) takes same time for covops as for cloaky recon. And why would you take covops instead of say falcon?
Additional scan str. wont be much of a difference - if you put probes at closest range to gate etc. you should get warpin with both covops and recon ships easily.
So only difference is scanning down hardest sites (and now there is a quesiton: are there covops-only scannable sites? if no, covops ships arent needed at all) and scanning down ECCM interceptors/recons (same question: can they be scanned on closest range with other ship? if yes covops is useless).
Humm? :)
Also the "result scatter" skill (forgot name... pinpointing?). You said that you arent sure if you will make results "deviate". If they dont deviate arent you making that skill totally useless? Rank5 takes a while to get to lv5.
Also (this is question now): what does/will astrometrics skill do? Any "bonus" to people who bothered to get it to lv5? Or just another group or ability to launch 1000 probes instead of 800? Read: useless :)
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 20:16:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/02/2009 20:17:27
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
With max skills, no implants and no rigs, an unbonused ship won't find:
- Assault frigates
- Covops
- EAS
- Some frigates
- Most interceptors
- Stealth bombers
So pretty much most non-important (tactically) ships arent findable. Rest are. Its not like you scan for frigs on TQ nowadays anyways (unless you are total sadist and guy is not moving at all).
Quote:
Also, recons are fat and slow and expensive - if they're fit for proper covopsing (ie, overdrives and an MWD) I'm not convinced they'd be an effective recon at the same time. And I'd really not like to try running a bubblecamp in one.
Uh... do we play the same game? Cost of a ship has nothing to do with its effectiveness and shouldnt come into calculation if its useful or useless. If falcon can probe and jam and covops can only probe ill take falcon over covops any day (and this is not only me but like 80% of players if notmore).
When it comes to being "effective" recon:
falcon: cloak, salvager, cyno, recon launcher // mwd, 5x jammer, sensor booster // 1600mm plate, 2x SDA t2 // 1x range 1x ECM power rig
Fits well, its fast, has nice buffer, can jam stuff and as a bonus it can scout as good (almost - cant get frigs) as covops. EXACTLY same thing can be done with rapier (quite a few of em run on TQ with probes) and arazu. Pilgrim is a bit more tricky but its still doable. All of em can fit MWD and all of em can evade camps almost as easy as covops frigs.
So in the end people who invested quite a few months to max covert ops skills + scan skills get only an advantage of scanning for frigs?
Quote:
What about for sites, will some become impossible to find or take an extended amount of time when not using a Covert Ops ship?
Thats why i asked about result deviation. If there is no deviation the pinpointing skill gets useless and all sites can be found within 3-5 minutes timeframe.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 22:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Hoshi
Edited by: Hoshi on 17/02/2009 22:05:56
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
So in the end people who invested quite a few months to max covert ops skills + scan skills get only an advantage of scanning for frigs?
You will save time using a covert ops. This due to more relaxed probe placement.
If we take a raven as an example target a Covert Ops pilot with covert 5 and 2 scan rigs can find that target with either 4au probes placed within 1.5 au from the target or 2au probes placed within 1.8au
The same pilot using a falcon with ecm rigs would need either 2 au probes within 0.8 au or 1 au probes at any range.
I think you can easily save 10-20 sec. Compare this to the 30-35 sec you save today and it's not such a large loss. Especially since you on top of that get the ability to find some targets you otherwise wouldn't be locate.
Im only looking at around gate/pos probing. Unfortunately if target is active you will NEVER get warpin on him. Cycling safes even each 15 seconds for 15 minutes (to lose aggro) is just too easy. Done it multiple times myself (5+ covops on you? they cant catch you anyways).
the most obvious use (and abuse i guess) of new scan system will be placing 4 probes (short range) around gate/moon where fight will be and moving onto the grid. This way you get easy and quick (just one scan cycle) warpin points on all ship classes (except for frigs and some stupidly eccm'ed cruisers which dont exist in normal combat situations).
So yeah if we include what you said covops will be useful like once per 1000 situations? If we include exploration then once per 5000? 10000? For me its damn useless.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 22:24:00 -
[5]
signal acquisition is rank 4 now???????????????????????????????????????????
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 22:27:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 17/02/2009 22:27:58
Originally by: DeepBlue
if you have the skill you find it, if not just train up.
if sites dont "scatter" no skill is required...
plant 1000au probe, plant 4x 1000au, plant 4x closest range probes at the dot. Done.
Quote:
noooo. he has this skill at lvl 4 :P
good. I just thought i lost 20 days of training.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.17 22:32:00 -
[7]
Originally by: DeepBlue
for now a none skilled, not rigged and not implanted player can find everything above a 0.12 sig. i see a time coming where i just can trash my virtues ;(
Thats exactly what im worried about. If some sites were left as "covops only" it would make some sense.
For example:
X = max scan str. of normal ship
1,5X = max skilled covops
1,5X = normal ship+virtues
Then leave some sites (10/10 etc) as findable with 1,5X scan str. Thus you need to either use covops or carry virtues. Both sides happy.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:10:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/02/2009 14:13:00
Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
Also for some number-crunchers out there. How does 5% scan bonus on sister launcher cover into being able to find harder sites with larger radius probes.
Tho im still not sure. If results dont deviate then there is no point in using any other probe range than 0,25au.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 14:15:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Paranovus
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Do results deviate? Or still the "dot" is always centered on site? At work, cant check.
As far as I can work out, scanning is practically impossible in the new patch due to reasons mentioned above. The dots don't appear at all anymore.
Hm? Interface bug or "working as intended"?
The "proper" way to add deviation would be almost same as in old system:
show "dot" and distance of "real" site from dot. So it would certainly need one more column in results: deviation.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 18:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 18/02/2009 17:43:09
Originally by: Ikar Kaltin
Thanks, that just sucks, I have astro 5 on tq but it wasnt finished on sisi, and when I trained it on sisi got the bug where the skill finishes and resets back to level 2 :/
Yep, I dont have astro 5 either, but just drop a combat probe and you cover 64AU. Same job of a deep space in many systems. Now if we could actually MOVE the damn things after checkking the systems... :-)
Normal short range probes are enough tbh. Signatures still appear only around planets so you just need to scan around clusters. Takes a while longer (especially in over 64 au systems) but its not a biggy tbh.
|
|
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 18:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/02/2009 18:28:03
One annoying issue:
when you launch probes the "probe list window" rescales to amount of probes. Make it stay set as i want it not as game wants it please.
EDIT:
ill comment on changes when probing system actually starts working :)
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.18 21:47:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 18/02/2009 21:50:11
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
I'd like local to be changed eventually but with the current directional scanner mechanic that would be pretty crap for the "defenders"
Delayed local = you would know where "attacker" is (or at least which systems he passed) - so you need to actually deduct their location (or actively try to find them).
Also defender still has gatecamps which will surely report any ship breaking thru.
Neways this is scanning topic, so i guess create new one for delayed/removal of local.
EDIT:
just saw that delayed mode = no info unless you talk on local. A bit harsh.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.19 06:59:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Alexeph Stoekai
Originally by: Potrero
What happened to the plus and minus buttons (used to zoom out and zoom in) next to the center control console? Those were really useful buttons for exploration and I used to use them a lot.
How to you zoom out to the system view now?
F10, Toggle Map.
Its cumbersome. Also would like the "solar map / system map / zoom in" above overview to be back tbh.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 11:30:00 -
[14]
Again my question: do results deviate or all "deviation" skills are useless atm?
Also whats the "minimum" skills needed to scan out the hardest sites?
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 11:43:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Space Wanderer
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Again my question: do results deviate or all "deviation" skills are useless atm?
Who knows? They SHOULD deviate, according to greyscale's words, but last patch foobarred the map, so dots are not showing...
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Also whats the "minimum" skills needed to scan out the hardest sites?
Depends on the equipment you use. With a covop, and str skills at 4 you probably won't have much trouble finding the harder sites, while without a covop and low skills you won't be able to find anything more than base 1 and base 2 sites.
So still like 1/3 of whole scan system (and point of some skills etc.) depends on target deviation or lack of therof... Hope they fix it soon.
And if strength differences are as big as you say its good. What i meant: there is a point of using covops for exploration :)
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 14:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zephina Lith
I don't understand why you will switch the level rank of the skills "astrometric triangulation" and "signal acquisition".
Personally I have level 4 in signal aquisition and level 5 in astrometric triangulation for now and with the change it will be inverted.
The fact is that I didn't intend to spend 24d for signal acquisition (due to the small bonus) and now I will have to spend it in astrometric triangulation.
Please explain me the goal of this change.
Under current (TQ) scan system the 10% faster scan speed is MUCH better than 5% scan strength.
Under new system (Sisi) scan strength is more important factor than scan speed.
Thus more important skill trains longer. Less important one trains faster (lower rank).
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 19:28:00 -
[17]
O yea now i remember one thing.
Astrometrics was 1 probe per skill level iirc (thus lvl4 needed to actually scan for anything)
Why not change it to 2x more probes per level?
1/2/4/8/16
You can start scanning for stuff with lower levels and with higher levels you can actually cover more points at the same time.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.22 20:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hoshi
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Astrometrics was 1 probe per skill level iirc (thus lvl4 needed to actually scan for anything)
3 probes at level 0, 4 at level 1 and 8 at level 5 is what it's like atm so no you don't need level 4 to find anything.
ah its ok then. Didnt know it starts from 4 at lvl1 not 1.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 11:43:00 -
[19]
If CCP manages to enable deviation then virtue implants will be useful. Pretty much higher scan str. will enable you to get plex faster than others with less number of steps.
Thats why im saying its VERY important for this thing to work. Not only hi-end scan strength skills/modules/implants depend on it but also whole rank 5 skill (pinpointing).
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 13:07:00 -
[20]
Originally by: DeepBlue
deviation wont change the fact scannable or not.
deviation only will change how many steps you need to find the site.
It is exactly what i said. Currently on TQ you pay for virtue set to find sites FASTER than others (higher sig = higher chance to find = less tries needed).
If deviation is included you will pay for less steps = faster finding of sites. Same advantage as before.
Quote:
in the end:
no deviation skills = 32 au scan, 2 au scan, .25 au scan
with skills: 32 au scan, 0.25 au scan.
so this skill saved you one step.... (30 secs?)
I agree its not that much but on TQ bonus wasnt also great. It usually gave you 1-2 scan runs advantage (80-160 seconds total).
Quote:
if this is going to stay, my new probing ship will be a rapier with grav rigs and a pph2 implant in head. this will just find everything in space.
Ishtar tbh :) Have hard time finding similiar ship from caldari line (cerb and NH lacks 2 free hislots for cloak + scan). Mebbe ye olde raven? ;p
|
|
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 13:08:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bimjo
what is a digital plexus ?
old farmable plex which took 5 minutes to complete and dropped 0,5-2bil ISK in mods per run.
Nowadays it got nerfed a bit (no deadspace mods) but it sitll does drop booster skillbooks (200-400m on market).
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 14:59:00 -
[22]
Originally by: DeepBlue
Edited by: DeepBlue on 23/02/2009 14:16:26
Hello,
here a complete rebalance of the complexes and its strenghts. the sister launcher got a boost (10%), needed for the whole balancing.
the redestribution of the plexes, is just an idea. however i think a few plexes should only be accesible/scanable if you have max skill and max implants.
if you have questions, fire away.
linky, bigger view
ohh and flame a way :P
You are not being objective especially with "8/10 finable only thx to virtue implants". I would agree that uber-hard (even harder than current provi HQ expeditions) COULD be only findable with virtue set but 8/10 or 10/10 should remain viable to non-implanted people.
Also id prefer for em just to increase the speed at which you find plexes - exactly like they do it till now. TBH they could even give 50% scan str bonus - at least person spents a lot of ISK to get covops-style scanning out of normal ship.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 15:01:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Jifai
This weekend's version of the patch on sisi was good enough to find wormholes in 0.0 and the rarest professional sites in 0.0. No 'luck' required.
Problem with deviation and stuff like this is time needed to find said site. If time needed for easiest site = time needed for hardest site (and only difference being skills limiting how hard plexes you can find) its wrong. Harder sites should deffo take longer, more "skilled" (as in player skilled) prober to find.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.23 21:59:00 -
[24]
Originally by: PiKacho
I have 1 cosmic anomaly 100% Signal and i can't warp. so WHY ? help pls
You need to have it in range of 4 probes.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.24 19:17:00 -
[25]
Same issues as above. But playing with my only probe i actually managed to get working it seems deviation is in.
But there was one weird thing:
- i dropped probe ceneted on my ship
- increased range to 32au, scan
- result is 2au away
- decrease to 8au
- result is 8,11au away
Uhhhh?
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.24 20:07:00 -
[26]
Its not what i meant. Probe was 0 (ZERO) metres from me. Thus it should give me only results up to 8au (as it was set in 8au distance). Yet it gave me "distance 8.11au" which was outside its set range.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.25 16:46:00 -
[27]
Hmmmmm...
Is it better to put probes in triangle "pyramid" (~60degrees between em) or maybe square on same plane (90 degrees)?
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.26 10:24:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Mashimara
You forgot about the sig reduction for all interceptors. So YES, piloted vs unpiloted makes a big difference.
Correction on interceptor part: they dont get sig reduction but MWD sig reduction now. So piloted/unpiloted doesnt make any difference (unless he is using MWD - but then it is piloted obviously).
But ECCM part is ofc. correct.
What i would like to see is ahbility to *gasp* scan people using non-covops cloaks. Make their sigs much lower but make em scannable.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 10:04:00 -
[29]
Well at least they are taking some feedback = good. Even if from 100 ideas 2 are good those are 2 changes that are towards players and which make stuff easier/more accessible/more fun.
|
Deva Blackfire
D00M.
|
Posted - 2009.02.27 13:44:00 -
[30]
Meh everytime i have some time to spend on sisi everything is broken and scanning doesnt work :(
Anyone knows how to force probes to actually scan on current sisi build?
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|